Questions on lift kits

[Trucker]

This did not really fit into the threads on the Tech list so I posted it here.

So having done some looking around and some thinking( not to mention spring is coming), lift kits that are on the market. WOW what a variety of choices choices choices.
Now I realize everyone has an opinion on brand and quality,and I will gladly take any advice. BUT the questions I really have today are:

1) How much lift before you need to worry about a T case drop (2.5 in seems to be the norm among kits before they include the spacers)
2) How much lift before you need to worry about re locating the rear track bar? this is where I seem to find some variances in the kits some 2 in include this some don't?'
3) do you really need to replace the cam adjustment bolts with a MILD lift.


This being said I don't have any plans on going extreme my Jeep is not quite a daily driver but not a weekend warrior either kinda something in between.I am thinking in the 2 to 2.5 in range. With the biggest hindrance being my anemic 2.4l motor ( Yes I know there is one with 35's on it in the club)

[JeepingNet]

1) How much lift before you need to worry about a T case drop (2.5 in seems to be the norm among kits before they include the spacers)

Depends on the Jeep.. I know it sounds crazy but its true.. I've seen some have vibes with 2 inches and other have 4 inches with no issues.. I've got 2.5 in mine with no problems.

2) How much lift before you need to worry about re locating the rear track bar? this is where I seem to find some variances in the kits some 2 in include this some don't?'

Its a good idea.. even on my 2.5 kit i relocated the rear.. the bracket is just a few bucks.. The front you can get away with but do yourself a favor and don't re-drill the hole.. You regret it a couple years later..

3) do you really need to replace the cam adjustment bolts with a MILD lift.

No.. a lot of jeeps don't even have the cam bolts. It is nice but no you don't..


I'm running the Rough Country 2.5 kit with 33s and it wasn't the best kit.. The shocks it comes with suck really bad.. I replaced them with Bilstein 5100s and the Jeep rides amazing now..

Here is my idea of an ultimate cheap lift..
-Rough country 2.5 coils
-Rough country rear location bracket
-Bilstein 5100 shocks
-.75 spacer for the front (make a better stance)

[Slater]

I'm running a 4" lift that came with a T-case drop but never bothered to install it, no noticeable issues and it's daily driven on the highway.

My kit also came with a rear track bar relocation bracket, so obviously put that on.

I only replaced the cam bolts because they broke removing them. This seems pretty common if you don't have alot of patience. They're 200$ from the dealer, or 40$ from BDS. lol

Keep in mind this was on a Grand Cherokee.

[Butterball]

Wow no t case drop with a 4 inch lift that be some bad angles on your rear drive shaft.I have a 4 inch on a tj and i tried no t case drop and with a motor mount lift to help with angles and was not driveable .I ended up taking the mmlift off and putting the t case drop on,it is alot better but i still get a small vibe at 80 to 90 klics.A sye kit would fix that.The other prob I have now is i have a pitman arm drop with the stock trac bar and i have bump steer and wanders all over the road.I was told by a rough country tech to put the stock pitman arm back on thay should help.He said only use the drop arm if you are using an adjustable trac bar.So on my days off i will try the stock arm.If that don't work the lift is coming off.My BEST advice if your looking for a lift DON'T CHEAP OUT just because its a good cheap price doesn't mean its any good.AS i feel that rough country makes strong components but they sacrafice ride quality ,but that is just my opinion from my experience with the RC lift.Spend the money at first it will save you in the long run.Sorry if I upset anyone that runs rough country.And that is very true not any two jeeps are the same each one will be affected differently even using the same components.Do your homework on this i learned the hard way.

[Trucker]

I am thinking about a 3inch lift from Zone Offroad now I am being told they are made by BDS but I am not 100% sure

[Dels383TA]

Not a big deal to not have a TC drop at 4" lift in a Grand, just remember that the drive shaft is like 2-3 times as long as a TJ or YJ, I am at somewhere near 5-5.5" with no drop, did rework the track bar mount and have a custom built drop in the front with a Rubicion Express track bar.
You can always get a 2" spacer lift with shocks and a 1.25 body lift, you will be able to fit 33s if you want to. If you chouse to run 35s you can always regear to 4.88s, but it wont be great on the highway. Whe it comes to getting springs you have a lot of choice, from reading a lot the rough country are kinda harsh and tend to sag fairly fast, you may opt to spend a bit more and get a set of Old Man Emu or Rubicion Express, bout will ride probly better then stock in quality, some of the guys in the club are using Terra Flex and seem to like them.
Best thing I can give as advice is to spend some time and do lots of research on what you want from your Jeep, now and in the futurre and set your self up to move on with a smaller investment, not saying go out and build a TJ with 6"s of lift on 40s and 1 tons the first shot but if you spend some time looking and researching you will soon find what can be kept and used for future builds.
If you are looking at get some stuff and cant decide weather to spend say 100 bucks for springs or 150 buck, you may be better off to save the extra cash and get it once, as you usually get what you pay for.
So hope this helps and makes things as clear as MUD,LOL

[AdamL]

I am thinking about a 3inch lift from Zone Offroad now I am being told they are made by BDS but I am not 100% sure

I've heard the same from Grove Offroad about the Zone being made by BDS but that's the only place i've heard it. I have a 4" Zone lift on my grand and i'm very happy with it so far, but i haven't given it much time to break in. A friend of mine has a TJ with a 4" Zone lift and the Control arm bushings, along with the shock bushings are shot and they've been in less than a year... though if i recall you can just replace the bushings, you don't have to buy the whole part.

[roclmbr]

Check your Jeep, and you may find there are no rear sway bars. I have a 2005 TJ with 2.4l engine and when I installed my lift I was going to put on the rear extensions only to find no sway bars. Called Chrysler and they told me they were no supplied on the 2.4l model.

[Butterball]

When i bought my tj it did not have any rear swaybar and it has the 6cyl.I think it was taken off before i bought it.Afterall it is a SPORT model lol. Yeah my rough country spit out its control arm and shock bushings in like a year as well ,Lots of miles on it though but no hard wheeling of any kind.Again I REPEAT DON'T CHEAP OUT you will find that you just pay more later...Do it right the first time.If you check some of my post you will see i had lots of issues with handling problems and roughness.But its getting better.

[MEGAWRAPS]

I've had 2 tj's and both with the BDS 3" kit, its a great kit that give plenty of clearance for 33's , has great ride quality and can flex really well. You can pick one of these up for $750-850 depending on where you get it, I got both mine at Jansam Motorsports and they ddi the install also. Quite a few guys around here run that kit and no issues that I know of.
That's my 2 cents..

[Zero Impact]

Same here with BDS- gotta love the no fine print warranty...cherokee 4.5" lift....bought from Jansam....ran on the first set of coils and leafs for bout 5 yrs and just did warranty replacement for new coils and springs over the winter.....Almost as good as getting a new lift!!! :-D

Hats off to Ron and the boys at Jansam and BDS!

Cheers,

PS.....coils and leafs were sagging a bit is the only reason I replaced them......I wheeled alot and pretty hard at times too.... ;-)

[Craig]

I am in the same boat, looking at lifts for my rubicon, i would like to run a 35 with a good amount of flex and room to do so , not afraid to do a flare trim if i have to
thanks

[BigHair]

This did not really fit into the threads on the Tech list so I posted it here.

So having done some looking around and some thinking( not to mention spring is coming), lift kits that are on the market. WOW what a variety of choices choices choices.
Now I realize everyone has an opinion on brand and quality,and I will gladly take any advice. BUT the questions I really have today are:

1) How much lift before you need to worry about a T case drop (2.5 in seems to be the norm among kits before they include the spacers)
2) How much lift before you need to worry about re locating the rear track bar? this is where I seem to find some variances in the kits some 2 in include this some don't?'
3) do you really need to replace the cam adjustment bolts with a MILD lift.


This being said I don't have any plans on going extreme my Jeep is not quite a daily driver but not a weekend warrior either kinda something in between.I am thinking in the 2 to 2.5 in range. With the biggest hindrance being my anemic 2.4l motor ( Yes I know there is one with 35's on it in the club)

THese are all excellent questions.. here's my take on it.

Reading through this post there is some good info.. and lots of opinion as one would expect. I'm going to try and address the questions here and some of the complaints as well..

First to answer your questions
1) How much lift before you need to worry about a T case drop (2.5 in seems to be the norm among kits before they include the spacers)
I've installed many kits, and I've noticed that every Jeep is different. I've had some where you had to install the tcase drop and others you didn't. some a Motor mount lift fixed it and others didn't. so this varies. In MOST cases, you don't need to drop the Tcase for 2.5" of lift. but 3" and up usually you do.

2) How much lift before you need to worry about re locating the rear track bar? this is where I seem to find some variances in the kits some 2 in include this some don't?'
Relocating the track bar isn't a must do on smaller lifts (2, 2.5 even 3).. but keep this in mind. The factory trackbar is none adjustable. So that means it has a fixed point attached to the frame and the axles. WHen you raise your suspension, the distance between those 2 points have increased(become longer) but your trackbar stays the same length. So the first thing able to move will(that being your axle) and it pulls the axle to the drivers side about 1/2 to 3/4" or more. The taller you go, the more it pulls it. So it's not mandatory to relocate it, but its a good Idea to keep your axle centered and alieve the little extra stress put on the trackbar. Like Colin said(Jeepingnet). It's pretty cost effective so why not do it right.

3) do you really need to replace the cam adjustment bolts with a MILD lift.
This again is a preference thing. Cam bolts allow you to slightly adjust the pinion angle on fixed arm suspension. So if you have having troubles with vibrations with or without a Tcase drop(see notes above), then cam bolts MIGHT help. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

I'd like to highlite another note Colin(Jeepingnet) pointed out. You can buy many different suspensions out there.. EVERY Company makes fairly cost effective options for small lifts.. The big difference with budget lifts, is that they use GENERIC shocks. In this case, RoughCountry I know for sure do.. So when your looking at a kit that includes shocks, they are the hydro shock. These are Generic(same valving on all vehicles just use different lengths). So if you have a shock valved for a full size truck, and you put it on a Jeep, it's definatly going to ride rough. Rough for me, and rough for you will be 2 different things.(this is VERY Opinoin based). So, if your worried about Ride quality, then choose the affordable 25$ to 50$ shock upgrade when choosing your kit. This will make all the difference in the world. For example the Rough Country Nitros are valved more specifically for the vehicle the lift is designed for, therefore offer a better ride quality. Also, the newer 2.2 shocks are even better valved and are a better quality shock. Colin is using 2.5" RoughCountry coils(I presume Progressive Rate) and upagraded to Bilstein and loves them This would be an excellent setup.

RoughCountry also offers a "combo" lift which is their 2.5" progressive rate coils and a 1.25" Body lift. tHis is more then enough to run 33's on a Jeep and perform well. wiht the body lift, it also allows you to clean under the Jeep better from that mud/salt etc that gets stuck between the frame and tub.

Warranty.. ok..
BDS Has their no fine print warranty, it is an excellent warranty. This helps them backup their products.
RoughCountry also has a similar Warranty. Lifetime Replacement Warrantyhttp://roughcountry.com/warranty/

Most Companies have a similar type warranty if they are a Good product, the manufacturers will usually back them up.

So if someones having problems with their RoughCountry products(bad bushings, shocks, suspension parts etc..., then try contact either the company who sold it to you for warranty assistance.. if they won't ask me and I'll see what I can do but RoughCOuntry has always been good for helping out their customers in these cases.

The best lift is usually a mix and match of parts although OME and Rubicon Express have just about dialed it in "Kit" form. You pay for it tho. Rubicon Express has a pretty good combo, but were unable to succumb to the BDS, Zone, RoughCountry type pricing and started farming out their products overseas to try and make things more affordable and stay affloat, but unfortunatly that didn't happen. Hopefully they will be back and stronger then before..

Anyway, sorry for the long post, just thought I'd try to add my 2cents and help an informative post.. These types of posts should stay stickied(well the question and answer part) to allow the newcommers quick and easy access to the info.

[Ciphergiest]

For someone who is new to the Jeep and lifting scene, this is great information. I vote it be stickied as well. :)

[Craig]

great info, i was looking at the 6 inch long arm from rough country, any experience with this kit ? It is fairly inexpensive for what you get and compared to other kits, which concerns me. I want to hold out and wait till i can afford a rock krawler kit, which I have never seen anyone around these partrs use yet
thanks for info\